Thursday, January 07, 2016

Sankyo Variant

So after last Monday's class Matt goes to show us something.  Normally when I do a sankyo from an ikkyo position, I establish the sankyo and apply some pressure all the way up.  I do this because I think of controls as controls.... a way to control uke.  If you just let uke up without some pressure then you there is a moment where you don't really have control.  Although there is pressure, I don't think there is instant pain.  It's more of a gradual thing.  Use the joint locking to control uke.

What Matt was doing was strange.... it felt like he first stroked the hand out a bit or positioned it somehow.  The initial movement is innocuous.  But then he starts to apply sankyo from that ikkyo position and it's a totally different feeling from a typical sankyo.  Instead of it just getting tighter and getting joint locking, it's instant pain and it's tight so you have no where to go.  Feels more like nikkyo.  He dialed out all the extra slack very early somehow.

What I'm wondering is whether this is useful as a control.  If it causes sudden, strong pain, most people aren't going to just sit there and take it.  I'd think that you'd start a wrestling match.  Now, Matt would win as he could just break a joint but I think I'd rather control someone with less possible intensity(which maybe isn't possible but it's a goal).  This variant of sankyo very much reminds me of Serge's aikido.  With his aikido you must go in the direction he wants you to or your elbow/wrist is broken.  Problem is, most people don't know which way to go.  So they would just pop a joint.

Although this isn't the style of aikido I want to use(to me this seems more like aiki-jitsu), I'm definitely interested in understanding how this works and how to apply it.  I'm wondering if it can be applied with less pain so you don't get into a struggle.


At January 08, 2016 3:50 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This was a follow up to some henka waza we practiced on Sunday. (Ikkyo to Sankyo transition.) Rather than bending the wrist to secure a modified Sankyo grip, I suggested stroking the hand open. This part should be innocuous as you don't want to provoke a grip fight at this point. Sekiya Sensei often used this method and said it should be done softly (like stroking a cat.)

I feel this approach has a couple of benefits. It pre tensions the joint and produces a better Sankyo grip. The transition also continually effects ukes whole body in a structural way rather than counting on some impending localized wrist pain. The continuous connection between uke and nage is more easily moderated for the desired result.

Due to the variables an individuals pain threshold and their range of flexibility can produce, I am less inclined to depend on localized wrist pain. I prefer the strategy of securing a structural conection first.

Noodle around and see how these ideas might help. Might help you avoid a spinning backlist;)

At January 08, 2016 4:14 PM, Blogger Poxbox said...

Uh.... normal sankyo that we do when starting from ikkyo hurts the wrist?? I just assumed it just felt tight(joint locking) and uncomfortable.

I didn't know that. This is one of these downsides of having flexible wrists. If I don't feel it I don't always realize what it's supposed to feel like.

The sankyo variant done to me felt like absolutely nothing and then sudden intense pain.... joint locking wasn't a concern. I just felt gobs of pain and no obvious way of relieving it. Thus my real reaction would be to struggle, push, pull, punch, kick, or do whatever to get out of it. You'd be forced to break a joint or move to something else. Of course, some people would just fold up like a lawn chair given that much pain. Those people probably aren't hard to deal with anyway.

I'd like to learn this way of doing things but I'm not convinced I want it as my "Go to" version of sankyo. Still useful to know though. Always good to have another tool in the toolbox.

Who knows, maybe this can be done such that the pain isn't so intense and immediate.

At January 08, 2016 4:54 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

WOW. Seems this soft stroking version really got through. Due to your flexible nature, I have never heard you say a joint lock caused you any appreciable discomfort. I hope there was no after effect.

The approach is less focused on the wrist and instead aims to wind up the body. The principal can be applied in many ways. Due to the strategic positioning any struggle cant really be directed back at nage. By working the position and tempering the pain and you should be able to efficiently subdue your partner.

At January 10, 2016 12:56 PM, Blogger Poxbox said...

No problem. The second the lock was let up the pain stopped. Nothing lingering. Will have to play around with this to see if it's practical for me.


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